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Pity that some of the most common reactions fall into two over simplistic categories: 1. No the devil went down to Georgia to learn how to play a fiddle. For the moron Neanderthals of the Far Right who will scream its the operators fault and we do not give a shit about marketing more safer designed weapons, if such idiotic polices were followed for other consumer goods today we would not have safety glass, anti-lock breaks, back up safeties, child proof medicine caps and chemical bottles, back up cameras, kick back muzzles on chain saws and the list goes on and on. It nicely describes what has to happen in a striker-fired P320 for an un-commanded discharge to happen as the plaintiffs have claimed. Hey, Im glad theres somethings we agree on! Im not even sure I would do that with my 92 or something else that can be both decocked and locked. Seems kind of like a Sig apologist article. It was at that point that I knew the gun had a design flaw. The same should hold true for the insane marketing of pistols like the totally unsafe Glock. Glocks biggest problem is they havent innovated since 1985. With the redesign, you would have to implement a LOT of force to move the trigger backwards. Bineau added the review is looking at so-called ancillary equipment (meaning the holster and other items) as one element of that broader investigation. Sep 20, 2021 613 571 Idaho. 1.A rush to market, and as usual the blind greed of the gun companies who no longer test pistols before marketing them think it is cheaper (so the idiots think) to let the public test them. It somehow moved to the hinges of the desk. And then theres Gunter Walker, a civilian, who says his P320 fired on its ownwhen he placed the weapon down on his nightstand, shooting him through the palm of his left hand.. These suits allege that their ultra-popular P320 pistol can fire without the trigger being pulled. Carrying a handgun in a purse, particularly one that isnt designed specifically to carry a firearm, is problematic at best. Slowly people are realizing they arent the only ones having issues. The SIG P320, which has been manufactured since 2014, is known to go off without the trigger being pulled if it's dropped and lands on the ground at a certain angle. Upgrades are for things that didnt work right in the first place. They suck and Im awesome!, 2. And it doesnt take too much Googling to find plenty of reports of LEOs suing the Georgia company as well (see here, here, here, and here for just a few). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, Simply put, the P320 is not safe and the lawsuits arent frivolous. The weapon was out of battery when it fired.. Mine is very accurate. I agree. Unless they have to fire their weapon in an on-duty incident most officers only fire their weapons just before and/or at qualifications, which depending on the department are annual or semi-annual. If these same folks were around in the 80s and got their way, no one today would know what a Glock was. When Villani was asked for his opinion of SIG Sauer, he said, I carry SIGs, I own SIGs, I just dont own a 320nor would I ever. When Scott asked Villani what he found when he took a P320 apart, he said, I thought Wow, they need to do their homework, they need to fix this gun.. Now when you lose your grip on lawn mowers or snow blowers they will not keep travelling foreword all by themselves. If they recruit smart cops, they wont have cops who will act against their political opponents outside of the constitution. hate to tell you this but most lawnmowers with the handle bar stop get tied down. Cops are crap with guns, unlike me, a REAL pistolero! Trigger is lighter than the Glock, it took years of aggressive training to reach the point of acceptable discharges with the Glock. In 1974 if you bought a Colt 1911, you left the gun store and then immediately took it to your favorite gunsmith and said Make it work it with Super-Vels, please. You cant get away with that today. It isnt the beginner woodworker who loses fingers. Thats the American system at work in all its corrupt majesty. Police officers do NOT get a lot of training unless theyre doing it on their own time at their own expense. The HK VP70 was made in 1970 when Gaston Glock was making curtain rods. You need to deliberately thumb the Pythons hammer back to get that trigger pull, each and every time. The U.S. manufacturer went a step further in its statement Friday, stating without evidence or attribution, that the timing of the article was intended to undercut its chances in the federal governments upcoming bid to replace all of the handguns in both the military and RCMP. Rather, it's because those LEO P320 pistols are seeing much more physical action than ones carried by civilians. The military has found that the pistol has a tendency to eject live rounds among other issues. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. Not too long after they sold a pistol to the public and United States military thats not even DROP SAFE?!? I think in the end even if there is no mechanical defect (dont hold your breath) it will be found that the Sig is causing accidental discharges for the same reason the Glock does, because if you snag the trigger on the Sig model that does not have a manual safety (some do) the gun will accidentally fire. BAM. . OR some gorilla with more brawn than brains ignored the 40lb trigger pull they suddenly had to break the tab. Heres the version of the report that ran later that night, during ABCs Nightline program . The Milwaukee Police Department reports "multiple unexplained accidental discharges" of the Sig Sauer P320 9mm, a gun all officers are required to carry, making for more than 1,600 firearms. Hes like the arrogant star QB on your favorite football teamyeah, you would never want to spend a weekend with him at the lake cabin, but your franchise would be little to nothing without him. Fair enough. My bet would be that someone had a fully loaded gun in a gym bag and a cloth or rag snagged the trigger. 01:10. "It has a clear capacity to fire without the trigger being pulled under certain conditions," said Hilton's lawyer, Jeffrey Bagnell. The clearest memory I have about the many people experiencing post-upgrade discharges is a cop who set his P320 on a table, and several seconds after letting go, IT DISCHARGED ON ITS OWN! They've also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. Kyle . A fellow kept his DA revolver in the desk. In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. LEO handguns get into struggles, they get laid and rolled on, they get smacked into vehicles/doorways, they get dropped, they get drawn and holstered way more often than their civilian counterparts. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. ! only reveals ones immature emotional attachment to an inanimate object, which reveals a pretty childish worldview. If its not legal momentum, it would have to be some other mechanism of failure.. Anyway around here they do. I wish nothing bad on anyone carrying regardless of brand. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. I wont argue theyre wrong, I dont own one, dont want to. Capitol Police Officers Explanation for Shooting and Killing Ashli Babbitt Is Riddled With Problems, The City of Wichita Raked In Almost $200,000 Selling Seized Guns in the Last Five Years, State Judge Issues Order Blocking Enforcement of Illinois Firearms Ban Act Statewide, Federal Judge Grants Injunction Blocking Enforcement of ATFs Frame or Receiver Rule, Illinois Rep. Bob Morgan: Anything Stamped M&P is a Weapon of War, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM, https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/, https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g, https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan. A few Warbirds decloaking would make me very nervous if it wasnt sci-fi fantasy. The American manufacturer of the new pistols belonging to Canadas special forces claims the soldier wounded in an accidental discharge last fall was using the wrong holster for the weapon. This is this same company that couldnt build their own freaking rifles after multiple attempts (Sig SG550 series) when that rifle had been made in Switzerland for years without issue. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. After all, there are limits on complying with Rule 2 and even Rule 3, because a gun muzzle is ALWAYS covering something, somewhere, and ALWAYS knowing what lies beyondperhaps FAR beyonda possible target is an impossibility. I wouldnt be surprised if she did it intentionally, she clearly suffers from a serious case of media whoring. L. LRRifleman . I can say we are aware of the statement released by SIG SAUER, said Maj. Amber Bineau. I didnt even touch it! Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . If it were the guns, there would be thousands of cases involving citizensbut there arent. But this time, the sound bites used were different. But that's not working in the P320, he said. Sig Sauer P220 Super Match. And people have a way of looking for ways to deflect blame for those discharges, especially when they stand to lose their job as a result. Canadas highly-trained counterterrorism force, JTF-2, is the only military unit with the SIG P320 in its inventory right now. Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. No you haters are not smarter than the US military, who tested the P320 far more than your favorite YouTuber ever did. Inside the gun, a metal piece called the sear should keep the weapon from firing until the trigger is pulled. In my opinion, the only reason SIG would have done that is if they knew there was a safety problem with the original gun, otherwise they would not have done it., Scott says Harrison reviewed the claims in Officer Hiltons lawsuit and said, its unclear to (Harrison) what could now be causing misfires in the upgraded guns., Scott then asked Harrison if he believes the P320 should be removed from the marketplace. You did get to sit and watch it with him, which leads to a serious question. I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. Later when he was driving he shifted his weight and this caused the trigger to be pushed back further and it went off and shot him and the bullet then also blew a big hole in the floor board of this truck. But as Officer Hilton says, There is no way anything could have gotten into my purseinto the trigger guard and pulled that trigger., This ABC report includes an interview with Joshua Harrison, a firearms expert hired by the network to examine the P320s design and give his opinion of its safety. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. Posts: 21156 | Registered: November 05, 2003. Would you? abprototype.com can add the manual safety as well as add the notches in the grip frame. (unless theyre SWAT or something). I think making guns easy to shoot has gone too far. Too expensive to use their customers as beta testers. Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. The bullet struck a soldier in the leg. His annual qualification consisted of shooting 32 rounds. They didnt have to, but did. The P320s and P365s were junk, plain and simple. Aug 25, 2021 pluong91 said: Hello all users that plan on making a P320 Accidental Discharge Threads -We love our P320's and have done the research when these articles and lawsuits came out, we don't need you to tell us, we have done our due diligence. Contacted late Friday, a spokeswoman for special forces said the investigation is still ongoing and would not confirm the companys findings. , 54 people all shooting themselves. SIG P320s were just the start and the P365 isnt far behind. In this version, Bridge City Officer Brittany Hilton tells her story of what she says happened when her P320 discharged as she was carrying it in her purse in what appears to be a SERPA holster (which has had its own problems, but thats another story). She didnt sue, but swore she would never own another Volvo again. The claim basically boils down to the notion that in normal, unconcerning operation, a foreign body entered the striker body. Ditto; that's what i was getting at earlier Bear007 Custom Aug 25, 2021 #18 The P320 pistol is a dog. The company didnt want to comment on any specific pending litigation for obvious reasons. The Milwaukee police department has had 3 incidents of the Sig discharging while being in a holster sitting in a patrol car in 2023. Ron, . Jeff Bagnell, a lawyer in Westport, Conn., who has litigated 10 cases, mostly by commercial gun owners, related to SIG P320 misfires across several U.S. states, took note of the accident involving the Canadian special forces soldier. The fact that Shatner was doing Wrath of Kahn meet and greets at 90 years old kind of soured me. Likewise, having a finger in the trigger-guard, or a clothing draw-string, or a retention strap, or some other object, when holstering the gun exonerates the maker, as the gun is firing with a trigger press of sufficient energy and stroke as designed. Guess it hasnt dawned on them that: 1. Trust a P365 with your life. The linkage isnt, but the way the striker leg and sear face mate up, the two materials being MIM castings, the small camming action, etc. That could happen easily. Stinking Lawyers and quota cops. I dont consider the drop-bang issue a failure and Sigs response was actually above any real need, except to perhaps deflect any easy wins for slime ambulance chasers I get that. And yes, if I pulled some of those stunts, Id have my membership revoked. While good firearms training and practices among law enforcement officers is certainly the case much of the time, weve seen far too many instances over the years of un-safe or downright dangerous practices by allegedly highly trained individuals to apply that kind of blanket endorsement to all cops or alphabet agency employees. First, keep in mind that allegations made in lawsuits are not statements of fact. The suit also cites other occurrences of "un-commanded" discharges with the 320 while holstered. I lost $150 dumping that gun and Sig instead of acknowledging that it had a problem and calling it a recall, denied all and everything and called it a voluntary upgrade., At my LGS a P320 just went off when one of the guys put it the counter when he set up a target. Wow new finger grooves, crazy innovation. SIG doesnt so you get killed by a punk with a Hi Point. He was told to shoot two rounds. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. There was no holster involved. But hey, in ruthless, lawless, Capitalvania were life is considered cheap and expendable no one gives a shit, especially the Far Right that screams about abortions and then kills off the children that were not aborted with loaded guns laying around the house. Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. Remember the highly trained FBI officer whose gun went off in a nightclub? Its not happening on your person without some catastrophic event. My elderly aunt drove her Volvo into a parked car, and the yard behind it, and the house behind that, while she was pressing the brake as hard as she could. Strangely the car kept accelerating, almost as if she were flooring the gas pedal. Whether or not the suits have merit. One hell of a conspiracy. Profits over reliability and you end up with junk. congrats. He points to it in the video. Why you and I are arguing over a gun that neither owns or will own, The settlement requires the gunmaker to reimburse owners of . BTW it was HK that made the first polymer gun, Glock actually stole the idea for the G17 from them. These lawsuits arent about Sig making a defective weapon, theyre about lawyers building a nationwide consensus in civil trial that makes it easier (and more lucrative) to soak gunmakers. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. Lastly, ship-wise I have to go with the TMP-era refit Enterprise, regardless of Captain. But Shatner? These officers are not gunfighters. I dont care about the upgrade that should never happen. According to Section 22.05 of the Texas Penal Code, engaging in deadly conduct with a firearm is considered a felony of the third degree. He was told to shoot two rounds. Remember the stupidity of the far right is infinite and the blind greed of the gun makers prove they could not care less about human life and suffering. Sounds like most of these cases were off-body carry. The P320 should be scrapped and SIG Sauer USA should redesign a new pistol around the striker firing mechanism instead of just retrofitting a hammer fired pistol (P250). The best take on this subject is by the author himself: this is about slime lawyers looking to build a national narrative and get a few wins in, so they can more easily get the next win and the next one, the next one and so on. I have no idea. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. But when you set a gun down on a table, and the damn thing goes off seconds after you let go, that sounds like a defective gun. Theyve now come to the attention of the legacy media. But now, P320 is the subject. Thats why NY demanded the NY Trigger be installed on Glocks before theyd buy them. Glocks have gone off when people attempted to holster them and after they have holstered them, some times way later after holstering them like the fellow that got into his pickup truck. He said hes a gun owner and a concealed carry permit holder. When a consumer product is likely to be operated in such a way that it causes accidents because it is way too easy to make a serious mistake because of human error when operating it the manufactures are told that the machine must be made safer. Theyre cheering for a noose around their own precious Glocks throat. It has been flawless so far. This leads me to conclude that the problem is not the gear but the moron using it. These lawsuits ARE about SIG making defective weapons. But then Im not a federal LE flunky who cant keep my booger hook off the bang switch, either. I have never had to have one serviced or replaced. Which in and of itself is user error / misuse. Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. Bagnell told TTAG that he believes the problem with the striker-fired P320 is an inadequate sear/striker connection (he has images he says illustrate this on his website). Id read that for TMP, they got NASA to help in the design of the refit Enterprise. My gun just went off! One of the officers a few years ago was carrying his P320 in a P226 holster that he took a Dremel to make the P320 fit. The drop-bang thing only happened at a very narrow event window, it was only once the Internet doom-preachers figured out that narrow window and did it over and over online did it appear to be a thing. Sig adapted and changed the pistol sufficiently to prevent even that issue. They admitted their problem and fixed it. Finger on the trigger and muzzle discipline are sometimes unheralded. I love when people call law enforcement officers highly trained. Most dont get more training than what they had in the academy unless they are getting paid time to train, or are going for something speciality such as S.W.A.T. If the latter were to occur, the drop safety would prevent discharge because it would not be pushed up by anything. To make the striker leg pull off of the sear, you would have to impart a lot of rearward momentum and stop it suddenly. While we dont have the actual numbers of similar lawsuits filed against other gun makers actually no one individual or organization seems to keep track of these things and gun makers dont want to talk about it it seems highly likely that every major firearm manufacturer gets its share of a regular flow of lawsuits filed by both civilians and LEOs who claim SHAZAM! There used to be a problem, which is why Sig fixed it. At the risk of sounding superstitious lets review Sigs latest turd pistol. D. This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. If you did the same with a Glock or an M&P without the thumb safeties, youd get the same result. U.S. lawsuits Sound familiar? . About $300. They did, however, note that when they were contacted by ABC, the company pointed out specific circumstances that were subsequently uncovered in the investigations of a number of these incidents. Weird how that might happen. 00:03. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. I still own them all. in Capitalvania. But breaking news here, skippy. How many times does a pistol have to malfunction before you blame it? And have the dropping 320 go off? (It wasnt my gun). And the fact they used real models, and big ones, gives the ships a real sense of heft, mass, movement and solidity that the garbage CGI ships of the new movies just cannot remotely compete with. They function as commanded every time. selling the 365 with strikers breaking? The second version emphasized the upgrade to fix the drop safety issue and notes that Harrison believes that problem has been fixed. The probable reason that some folks are saying that the P320 is unsafe is that there was a lawsuit filed in federal court in July of 2020 (Guay v. Sig Sauer) alleging that the 320 fired "un-commanded" without a trigger pull while in a holster. UPDATE:We were just made aware of YouTuber BoomStick Tactical who produced this video the day before our post published. My trust for Sig stopped after they produced the beloved Sig556xi Russian. SIG is choosing to litigate their problems away. People who had problems have been replacing them with Lightning Strike SS ones. This is just blind greed using some careless doofus to sell a lie and cash in because a civil jury, like the average American voter, can be manipulated easily though emotion, tears and stories of anguish, pain and suffering at the foot of some super-rich evil corporations cold-blooded behest. So the tally goes against the surrounding area, not against the gun free zone. Is there any major military anywhere that ever issued one of their guns? Sig P320 Accidental Discharge 2021 Perhaps nothing speaks more clearly to the need for a total recall than the fact that in 2021, over four years after Sig Sauer offered its voluntary upgrade, people are still suffering injuries and lawsuits continue to be filed. The P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost . Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Sig Sauer did not respond to ABC News' request for comment. So even if, as the ambulance chaser claims, the striker leg could vibrate off of the sear face, it could not discharge unless the drop safety was also disengaged because the drop safety prevents movement of the striker sufficient to make the firing pin protrude from the breech face. No Warp core, just a quantum singularity, The engine was basically a dorm fridge. While this incident occurred months ago, this erroneous media report is driven by multiple sources, including our competitors, and coincides with the imminent release of other Canadian military and law enforcement tenders, indicating the timing of its release is an attempt to improperly influence the procurements, the statement said. how do I get one for my P320? I sold that pistol when I got it back. So I give a ton of credit to Shatner for reading the reality of what it was and in essence, saving it. To me it was unreal, $600 to ask a question about WOK and a picture. there is no better. Result: Sig P320 goes off when dropped and shoots people. https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-iN4Wr8P_P2lGU6m2M5Rd8F6tVxyeeWdzleA_0eUoKjB0wER5wbVU_ouLj3uKCvLmUWhjIv2uHVC2R0Wv8Q9VgQ/messages/@.id==AMxkWSMoHX4bYSzMKA0AINojDH4/content/parts/@.id==2/refresh?appid=YMailNorrinLaunch&ymreqid=ae6c4f7d-acdd-ffa3-1c80-d70000011c00. in 2021," Bagnell said of the overall scope of the concern . Its also beyond debate that current production Sig quality is drastically inferior to what it once was, particularly the German made pieces. Asking for a friend. If the gangster greed monger criminal Capitalvanians in the gun industry had their products under the jurisdiction of the consumer safety administration all the newer striker fired guns would never have been allowed on the market unless they had manual safeties and a safe take down system. On Thursday, M.D. The list is long proving gun manufactures were well aware of this problem now for 121 years yet they abandoned this when the Glock infested the gun market. This highly trained Fibbie was doing flips while dancing (breakdancing? What it likely means is that cops and other law enforcement officers carry and handle their guns far more often than the average Joe or Jane. I own Serpa holsters in multiple configurations (1911, Beretta 96, H&K, Springfield, etc) for most of the time theyve been around and I NEVER had an ND. Thats deflecting from the real issue. Good job! You have entered an incorrect email address! Have heard of no issues like the alleged gremlin caused spontaneous discharges of the P320 in other Sig models. NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. All those customers who paid $1600 now had a limited function paper weight. So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. Combine this with the complacency that comes with handling a firearm over-and-over again as you holster and unholster a firearm throughout the day, its not surprising that many of these officers are saying it just went off as a negligent discharge can cost them their job if it lead to serious injury or property damage.